FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Hi all. I’m thinking of trying to grow my VFTs in long fibre sphagnum.. Mostly because I’ve heard carnivorous plants love the stuff and because the UK has now banned the sale of peat moss.. I’ve looked at the coir option and to me it looks like a pain in the ass to prepare with the desalination process and all that so I’m not really wanting to go down that route.. Any tips or advice on the use of sphagnum? Is it worth it? Anything I need to be aware of? I’m fairly new to this game so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

It's definitely a great media, my plants seemed to do better in it. However, the cost for quality LFSM is usually the deciding factor that pushes most growers to peat and perlite or sand. It usually comes down to switch, or limit the size of your collection so you're not mortgaging your house to buy LFSM every couple of years.
With the UK peat ban, that option is taken from you, so plan on spending extra on media unless you can find an economical option. Or, start soaking and draining coir to wash out all the salts.
Good luck.

Soaking and cleaning coco coir is not too much of a pain, but then I have othere alternatives. What I did was used the less expensive LFSM for the bottom half of my media and the premium stuff for the top half. I will not know until sunmer whether or not it actually works. I hope so because I have close to 40 planted up that way.

andynorth wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:14 pm Soaking and cleaning coco coir is not too much of a pain, but then I have othere alternatives. What I did was used the less expensive LFSM for the bottom half of my media and the premium stuff for the top half. I will not know until sunmer whether or not it actually works. I hope so because I have close to 40 planted up that way.

It wouldn't be such a pain if you have maybe a half-dozen pots and your tap water is low in minerals. I've heard of people rinsing 10-20 times, but maybe the processors have gotten better at washing the coir before packaging. If you have a limited amount of "good" water, though, it can become a problem...do you use your rainwater that you've collected to rinse coir or water plants? If you have plenty of rainwater stored, then no problem. If you're living out of jugs of distilled water, that could be a problem. Possibly setting up a RO system might work in providing water for rinsing coir and watering plants, but then you need to have other plants that can use the waste water...and if you're in an area that limits your water usage you have to deal with that restriction. Tap water for me is something like 250ppm to 360ppm (we sit over a large limestone aquifer which makes for great drinking water but lousy for watering carnivorous plants and washing media). People who live in hard rock areas tend to have more useable, lower TDS water.

Coconut coir, to *me*, just seems to problematical...
When is it cleaned enough?
How long should I let it sit in the water and "steep" before testing it after the sixth rinse?
Do I need to monitor the TDS regularly after planting into coir to be sure it's not leaching out salt?
Would you put a pinch of salt in your 50:50 peat:perlite mix?
I've seen it recommended several places not to use coir for seedlings of non-carnivorous plants or for grown plants that are salt-sensitive...how to carnivorous plants fit in with that?

Having all my negatives here I've seen people that say their carnivorous plants do fine in coir. For me, I'll stick with peat and sphagnum moss. If I hear they're going to stop selling peat here in the USA I'll buy a couple of bales...that'll probably keep me going until I'm either ashes or compost.

As for using sphagnum moss... Depending on how much you need you can start growing it. It just seems to me that live sphagnum has some really, really good things about it. Not sure of all the scientific mumbo-jumbo, but plants just seem to grow really well in it...and it is superb for starting leaf-cuttings in. Even dried LFSM is good, though I use the low-end stuff that Andy is probably speaking of. It works well in growing things and has even started some sprigs of live moss growing from it (definitely not a pot full, but...). But, having said that...we still have peat moss available over here and for the bulk of my plants I use that and perlite.

I may just buy a small brick of coir to see how well washing goes with it. Maybe even do a side-by-side germination/seedling-grow test with some sundew seeds...coir versus peat.

Intheswamp wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:36 pm I may just buy a small brick of coir to see how well washing goes with it. Maybe even do a side-by-side germination/seedling-grow test with some sundew seeds...coir versus peat.

I was thinking of trying the same thing. I have some seeds that are ready to sow. My tap water is ~35 so not a problem cleaning with that and rinsing with rain or distilled water for ok results.

35ppm tap water is only in my dreams around here.

I was just looking around and see some interesting "information" within some of the product descriptions on Amazon. Several advertisers mention that the coir is "buffered"...to me that means that "something" (lime?) has been added to raise the pH a bit, though most advertisers if they give a pH measurement state it in a range that is slightly acidic. Also, one advertiser who brings in his coir from south India talks about it's coconuts growing "far from the ocean" and "having plenty of fresh water for processing". It then states "It is fully washed multiple times with fresh water to attain low EC levels and reduce the risk of salt build up in your soil." So, it doesn't alleviate a salt built up in your soil, but rather reduces the risk...but what if this *is* the soil and not an amendment to your native soil? Ok, so "OCD-Me" has showed up on the scene. For a $10 bill I might just order a small brick of this stuff. I was considering on that had 4.7 feedback rating out of 1100+ reviews...but it says "Pre-Buffered with Calcium and Has a Very Low Salt Index". Ok, back to the search...

These little discs are the only ones I currently have. I added water to one a few months back and cleaned it really well. I got it down to a pH around 4 and PPM was under 25. After sitting in a bag for a couple months it has risen to a pH of 6.5 and PPM of 35. Very strange that just sitting in a bag would cause the increase.

Over time I can see how over time minerals could leach out of the coir, sphagnum moss, and peat moss that we thought we had rinsed well...some stuff doesn't release/rinse out easy. The TDS ppm increase seems reasonable but that increase in pH does seem a bit much.

Are you sure the UK is banning the buying of peat moss as of this year?

UK Government confirms ban on all peat-based gardening products will not be implemented until 2030. Today, Defra (Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs) has confirmed that while some peat-containing products will be banned from shelves in 2027, others will be exempt from a ban until 2030.23 Mar 2023

MrB1664 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:18 am Hi all. I’m thinking of trying to grow my VFTs in long fibre sphagnum.. Mostly because I’ve heard carnivorous plants love the stuff and because the UK has now banned the sale of peat moss.. I’ve looked at the coir option and to me it looks like a pain in the ass to prepare with the desalination process and all that so I’m not really wanting to go down that route.. Any tips or advice on the use of sphagnum? Is it worth it? Anything I need to be aware of? I’m fairly new to this game so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

If you want to buy in small batches then ask one of the Uk carnivorous plant sellers (https://www.littleshopofhorrors.co.uk/p ... s/compost/ or https://www.hantsflytrap.com/compost-45-c.asp)

Yeah that’s what I’ve read and been told.. I think a few places have an exemption for a bit.. Little shop of horrors is already starting to sell pear free alternative substrate so they might not be one of them..

I grow all my top vfts in a 1 lfsm : 1 perlite mix and they love it. It will dry out faster than peat moss but the plants grow significantly larger in lfsm.

Josh's frogs Chilean moss used to be a great source of bulk lfsm although their prices have gone up recently.

Or y ou could just grow your own. Get some live lfsm and grow it out. The beginning will be slow but once you've got several yards of the stuff growing, you should have everything you need for the rest of your life.

davinstewart wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:46 pm I grow all my top vfts in a 1 lfsm : 1 perlite mix and they love it. It will dry out faster than peat moss but the plants grow significantly larger in lfsm.

Or y ou could just grow your own. Get some live lfsm and grow it out. The beginning will be slow but once you've got several yards of the stuff growing, you should have everything you need for the rest of your life.

I grow mine in straight LFSM. I use the cheaper stuff on the bottom and the premium orchid stuff for the top 1/3 or so.
Question about growing. How do you get it to grow in yards? I have a few small containers that it grows great in. Do you just use larger containers or is there a way to fold it and keep the same sheet going?

Daft question but if you pot in LFSM does the pot still have to stand in a water tray or do you just water from the top as and when the moss dries out?

I've found that the key for me is to keep it constantly moist but not wet while exposing it to strong sunlight.

For me this could mean growing in undrained 1020 trays on a inch or two of dead lfsm which I keep moist or it could mean growing as a top dressing for my sarracenia. I suppose the best approach would likely be to create a floating platform of some kind that would keep the lfsm at just the right height above the water to keep it moist but not wet all the time, much like how it grows in nature (google quaking bog).

In terms of harvesting, I use the cut-and-come-again approach and just shear off the top inch or two until I have enough for whatever I'm working on. Not sure what you mean about folding it but as long as it's got light and moisture, it should grow well.

Hope that helps!
Davin

andynorth wrote: I grow mine in straight LFSM. I use the cheaper stuff on the bottom and the premium orchid stuff for the top 1/3 or so.
Question about growing. How do you get it to grow in yards? I have a few small containers that it grows great in. Do you just use larger containers or is there a way to fold it and keep the same sheet going?