FlytrapCare Carnivorous Plant Forums

Ok. To my surprise it looks like we have two freezing temperature nights coming up this week...Tuesday 32F and Wednesday 31F night. Not hard freezes, but...

It will be my first winter with my CPs so I'm not sure what to do. Everything is outside. I've mentioned the old trailer I have that I can move the CPs to for overwintering...a room on the end has a big bay window facing east that I usually raise vegetable seedlings in. Naturally I have grow lights there and even heat (though I'm not planning using the heat). I've got small flytraps and pitcher plants, some 3/4" flytraps, and some small 1/8" rosette sundew seedlings and some 3/8" filiformis sprouts growing off leaf cuttings.

I could put the seedlings and sprouts beneath the growlights and let the things that need dormancy simply sit on a desk in front of the bay windows. I've never had freezing temperatures in the trailer, though during extended cold periods in can drop down into the 40's.

So, what do you think. Should I go ahead and move the trailer for the winter???

I would move all sundews (including temperates if they're still small) and baby VFTs to the trailer and keep the older sarrs outside. Once the temperate dews and VFTs are mature, they can stay outside at those temps. I would never let them be outside if the temperatures reach lower than 25. My VFTs, sarrs, and temperate dews have been sitting outside at night in 27 degrees and have been fine, although I did bring a struggling x hybrida to basement where it's slightly warmer.

If you can, pack the pots close together so that they eliminate much of the air movement around the pots.

I probably need to move them from their present location. Sitting on the old deck there's air flowing beneath them and up through the spaces between the boards, and over them. I could sit them on the ground but with the argentine ant problem that we have there'd end up being an ant colony beneath each pot/tray.<sigh> Eventually there will come a hard freeze or three, so I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and make the move now. One positive aspect of the move might be that the small seedlings and sprouts could go beneath my grow lights and possibly a heat mat to help them grow a bit faster.

I just checked the forecast for an update and they've raised the temperatures to a 34 and a 32....*much* better. I've got some rigid foam I could put beneath them and some old sheets to drape over the cages that they're in. Decisions, decisions.

Shouldn't southern Alabama be good for all NA-CP's? I am almost as north as South Carolina gets and i am good.

Hmmm... Maybe I should just move my really small seedlings and sprouts to a sheltered area and let the larger (not big by any means) plants stay outside? Being off of the ground tends to make potted plants more vulnerable to freezing, from what I understand due to no insulation from the bottom and more exposure to wind. But, maybe I'm overthinking this? We've got an old cement picnic table behind the house, just a catch-all for things. There's been a pot of "something" growing for probably 10-15 years in a pot that sits on the table. It's rather fleshy-leafed, etc.,. It dies back in the winter when freezes hit and comes back fine the next spring...it's a tough plant, weathering drought and infrequent waterings, and no fertilizer, but it seems to grow regardless. So, leaving the larger CPs outside will probably be fine. My USDA zone is right on the 8a/8b line in south Alabama...normally high humidity.

Well, we've got freeze and frost warnings out for tonight. Things are growing pretty good, though it looks like my rescue flytraps are growing flatter to the surface now rather than lifting their petioles up...maybe acknowledging the shorter photo-period? My little leuco is looking better than it ever has in it's 3" pot. I've got a freshly potted 2" tall sarr and two small threadleaf filiformis varieties struggling to take root. Also two cups of pruned sarrs no-names from CarnivorousPlants $5 bargain rack freshly potted. A 5" pot of intermedia and two 5" pots of dime-sized purple flytraps. Another 5" pot of flytraps that are even smaller than the dime-sized ones. A small 4" bowl of U.sandersonii. Lastly, I have some sprouts started from some filiformis leaf cuttings and some tiny seedlings started from miscellaneous droseras seeds.

<ETA> Dang, I forget an entire small tray of sundews...a Filiformis Florida Giant, multifida extrema, and a couple of tokaiensis...all in 3" pots. Also, some pots of our local D. brevifolias.

Current plans...

Leave outside:
All larger flytraps
Pruned sarrs "no-names"
Drosera Intermedia
A couple of bins of sphagnum moss

Bring inside old trailer:
Small flytraps
Struggling threadleaf sundews
Leucos (they're doing so good I hate to see them killed back by the frost/freeze so quickly)
Sundew seedlings and leaf-sprouts
Utricularia
<ETA> Three 3" pots of D. filiformis Florida Giant, d. binata multifida extrema, and a d. tokaiensis in them.
<ETA> The pots of small d. brevifolia.

The temperature in the old trailer will be cold, but will stay above freezing (from past experience). I can also move the seedlings, sprouts, and small flytraps under some grow lights while in there.

Am I still overthinking this? Would the small leaf-cutting sprouts survive a light freeze?...the tiny seedlings? Even the leuco? The lowest temperature so far predicted has been 29F...but they keep bouncing around between there and 32F. I feel really like a fussy little ol' guy here, knowing many of ya'll are looking at *much* colder temperatures than these!!!! OCD-Me.

There are two problems with freezing temperatures. The first is the freeze/thaw cycle. Most plants can take a brief period of freezing as long as they aren't freezing at night and thawing during the day. Consider how long it takes the ground to freeze and then how long it takes to thaw after the freeze. That is what the plants can tolerate. In small pots, the cycle is much shorter and more dangerous to the plants.

The second, and I think more problematic, issue is that during freezing temperatures, the humidity is very low and the plants dry out quickly. A freezing wind will suck all of the moisture out of a plant. In essence, it will be freeze dried. This is why I cover my plants during freezing temperatures. It helps to regulate the temperature some but, more importantly, helps protect the plants from the drying effect of the cold air.

Regarding your plant for above, I think it will work fine. I would just cover the outside plants with a tarp or some sort of mulch when the temp is below freezing. Leave a pot of live sphagnum without cover, and you will see what I am talking about.

When you cover your plants is there a solid bottom beneath them? The old deck that mine are on has the usual ~1/2" gap between boards so no insulation there. I've got a tarp I can throw over them.

Freeze cycles are fast down here. A hard freeze for us is usually considered to be in the mid-20's early in the morning before sunrise. But, the temperature rises above freezing usually well before noon. The following night may dip back down into the twenties. We *very rarely* have freezes which last for much more than 12 hours in a row or venture into the low-20's or upper-teens. If we have a second night of freezing temperature it usually hits harder due to being pre-chilled by the previous night's freeze. It's a real roller coaster ride. Plants will be growing nicely outside...a freeze hits one night...the next day everything is brown and wilted...and the temperature shoots back up to 70F making everything sweat profusely.

I think I'll go with the above plan. It may actually give my sprouts and seedlings a spurt of growth as I can give them a longer photo period beneath the lights. They're not the greatest lights...mostly just some old florescent shoplights (they grow *nice* vegetable seedlings, though!). I have a few LED lights I've been tinkering with, too. No bonafide "grow lights", though. I'm a little concerned about the leuco, though, as I know it needs dormancy sooner or later.

Looks like I need to get with the program and make some changes for now.

As far as the deck goes, if you can get the pots in contact with the ground, that will be better. Having the air circulating beneath the plants will cause the temperatures to fluctuate more quickly.

The leuco should be fine to skip another dormancy. The other option is, if you have space, to put everything in the trailer. The challenge with that becomes when the temperatures are over 45 in the trailer, the plants will need some light.

As far as shoplights go, I am using a two bulb fluorescent fixture with won bulb being a fluorescent grow tube and the other being a white LED tube. They are T8 40W bulbs and I have them about 6 inches away from the plants. It works fine for seedlings and small plants.

Winter is always a challenging time. It can go really smoothly or really badly. The best you can do is to try to accommodate your plants the best you can and then hope for the best. After you have a few winters under your belt, you will get a feel for what works best in your environment.

The Argentine ants around here would *love* the pots to be on the ground...instant ant condo. The Argentine ants are a big nuisance around here...they are much more prolific than RIFA. The good thing is that they don't sting, though...and they displace the RIFAs! They bite, but don't sting. But, they're still a royal pain...

Thanks for the info on the Leuco's dormancy. I've got the space in the trailer. My plant stand is roughly 20" by 48". Right now I've got ony two shelves on it. The upper shelf has a couple of repurposed 3-panel LED garage lights...*really* bright suckers. They're bright white...I don't like to use them because they hurt my eyes they're so bright. But, the veggie seedlings seemed to have responded well to them...these were older seedlings. The lights do put off a bit of heat. The lower shelf (lowered to accommodate the older/taller seedlings in the photo) has three 48" shop lights above it. Seedlings grow well under them. I've used 5000k tubes mostly in them along with LEDs...I just haven't gotten use to LEDs yet. The room is at the end of the trailer and the entire end of the trailer is floor to ceiling windows facing east. I figure for the "dormant" plants...the older flytraps and the pruned sarrs sitting in front of that window would be good enough. I really don't think the temperature will get lower than 40F in the room. If I need to I can keep some windows opened a bit.

So, for plants I want to keep "awake" and growing I'll put them beneath the grow lights. For the ones that can use a break/rest I'll sit them in front of the east facing bay windows. Sound like a plan?

I just looked up mean temperatures from November thru March for a couple of years and the average is hitting at around 56F for my location. Is that low enough for CP dormancy?

Good plan! I have kept sarrs dormant in 55F so it is fine to get that warm every now and then but it could be a struggle. Random tip for the leuco: don't keep it too wet. They're very susceptible to root and crown rot. Good luck with your first dormancy!

That sounds like it should work. It's funny that you mention the ants. I just drowned two ant colonies out of two of my container bogs. The containers were on the ground and they entered through the drainage holes. I propped them up on bricks, plugged the holes with sphagnum and added water until the ants were entirely submerged. They'll stay like that for a couple of days and then I'll pull the plugs and let them drain.

Well, the weatherman took another mighty swing...and missed again!!!<sigh>

The low I recorded last night was 33.5F. And it looks like the forecast for tonight is 33F but with a "freeze warning".<huh?> Ok, patchy frost is predicted, blah, blah, blah. Extended forecast is moving back into the the low-50's to mid-50's at night upper-70's and low-80's daytime. Good weather to be in the sun. I moved *all* the plants into the old trailer during the late afternoon chill yesterday. At least I got everything situated to house them.

Now, the big decision...do I move them *back* outside or leave them in the trailer. It looks like we're moving back into the 70-80 degree daytime range and nighttime temperatures of above 40F until at least Thanksgiving...another five weeks or so away.

What I did yesterday was to load the plants into my old utility trailer and pull them beside the bay window at the trailer. I removed the window screen and slid the plant trays in through the window. It might be a bit more involved because I don't have a floor to slide them out on to. My thoughts are to put them in the utility trailer and keep them there. I don't anticipate using the trailer anytime soon. I could actually put them in better (longer) sun than what they get on the old deck. Then, when the next freeze warning comes along I can simply pull back over to the trailer and offload them through the bay window. The thing about putting them so far away is the "out of sight, out of mind" phenomenon. It's a lot easier to walk by a plant and go "Mmm, I think I'll give it a sip of water...rather than walking the several hundred feet to the trailer to purposely check them. Oh well, they're in the trailer for now...at least for another day or two.